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the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

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the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:42 pm

honestly i believe hybrid is the way to go. best in every aspect, healthy athletic conformation... so what exacly you believe went wrong with the bully or extreme bully type dogs?

do you believe lets say if you have johnson dogs adding some hybrid blood can you actually have the best of both worlds?

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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:58 pm

JSAN_911 wrote:honestly i believe hybrid is the way to go. best in every aspect, healthy athletic conformation... so what exacly you believe went wrong with the bully or extreme bully type dogs?

do you believe lets say if you have johnson dogs adding some hybrid blood can you actually have the best of both worlds?

I think any time you break away from the main stream it opens the door for extremes, because some of the checks and balances have been removed. Not to mention once the focus changed from primarily a working dog to be about looks and a pet that was the beginning of the end for the "real" AB.

I remember back in 2002-03 stating on the T.G. board that the Hybrid would one day reign supreme and folks laughed at me, said I didn't know anything etc. etc. However here we are 10-11 years later and what do we see? In the breed ring the hybrid is putting it down and most all of the titled working dogs in bitesports like schutzhund, the Rings, PSA etc. are Hybrids. The hybrid is the "middle of the road" dog in type, ideally being neither weedy and coarse built.

Honestly I feel after having started researching and really looking at the Johnson dog, they are what the AB probably should have been. That is without the obssession of size to the detriment of everything else.

I think it was a huge mistake when AB types were split into two breed rings...the Ab is one breed! So it should only have one ring and one standard with subtle allowances for the slightly bullier dog. Once upon a time you could get standard pups in bully litters and vice versus so close were the types.

Greed brought on by the high price tag has done a whole, whole lot to ruin the AB. I mean look at what has transpired on the boards of late...all of it has its roots in money! With one high profile breeder stating that he is amending he ways and now breeding for the athletic working ab!

Some of the Johnsons and Hybrids resemble each other quite a bit...especially Johnson dogs like these:

Jaxx (I love, love love this dog!!!!) health wise he has everything you want tight hips (ph in the .20s/OFA prel. Good, NCL/ICH Clear) all on a very athletic frame...All I can say is WOW!!!
see for yourself
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1295993


Sally Dawn
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/sallydawn.htm

Jetheroe
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/chjethroe.htm

Howee
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/howee.htm


There are other Johnsons out there like these but I forgot the websites.

My question is why aren't breeders utilizing the Johnson dogs in their programs? The Johnsons breeders have made great strides in producing good hips (tight, well formed deep sockets) and many are good clean breathers. Especially those that don't go back to Ch West High Hopes (EB).

Jon, started a thread on the N X board about going back to the root and met with a bunch of hate and nay sayers...why?
Please someone tell what is all the stigma surrounding the Johnson dog?

Here are some Hybred dogs

KIWS Icon
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=592937

Mamma Jamma
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=592937

KIWS Blanco (this is the dog I'm taken Katara to on her next heat fingers crossed)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1615345

CH Chestnut's Little Daya at Churchills
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1614501

ABNA GR. CH. Chestnut's Little Haloke
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1614501

Axle
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=799993


If we would go back to one ring and one standard most abs would look like Johnson/Hybrid dogs and not like either of the extremes.
Least that my opinion away! flower


Last edited by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:48 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:21 pm

man lynda do i love your feed back, everyforum should have their own taskmaster.lol. but i agree 100%
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:24 pm

Taskmaster wrote:
JSAN_911 wrote:honestly i believe hybrid is the way to go. best in every aspect, healthy athletic conformation... so what exacly you believe went wrong with the bully or extreme bully type dogs?

do you believe lets say if you have johnson dogs adding some hybrid blood can you actually have the best of both worlds?

I think any time you break away from the main stream it opens the door for extremes, because some of the checks and balances have been removed. Not to mention once the focus changed from primarily a working dog to be about looks and a pet that was the beginning of the end for the "real" AB.

I remember back in 2002-03 stating on the T.G. board that the Hybrid would one day reign supreme and folks laughed at me, said I didn't know anything etc. etc. However here we are 10-11 years later and what do we see? In the breed ring the hybrid is putting it down and most all of the titled working dogs in bitesports like schutzhund, the Rings, PSA etc. are Hybrids. The hybrid is the "middle of the road" dog in type, ideally being neither weedy and coarse built.

Honestly I feel after having started researching and really looking at the Johnson dog, they are what the AB probably should have been. That is without the obssession of size to the detriment of everything else.

I think it was a huge mistake when AB types were split into two breed rings...the Ab is one breed! So it should only have one ring and one standard with subtle allowances for the slightly bullier dog. Once upon a time you could get standard pups in bully litters and vice versus so close were the types.

Greed brought on by the high price tag has done a whole, whole lot to ruin the AB. I mean look at what has transpired on the boards of late...all of it has its roots in money! With one high profile breeder stating that he is amending he ways and now breeding for the athletic working ab!

Some of the Johnsons and Hybrids resemble each other quite a bit...especially Johnson dogs like these:

Jaxx (I love, love love this dog!!!!) health wise he has everything you want tight hips (ph in the .20s/OFA prel. Good, NCL/ICH Clear) all on a very athletic frame...All I can say is WOW!!!
see for yourself
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1295993


Sally Dawn
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/sallydawn.htm

Jethero
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/chjethroe.htm

Howee
http://hdamericanbulldogs.webs.com/howee.htm


There are other Johnsons out there like these but I forgot the websites.

My question is why aren't breeders utilizing the Johnson dogs in their programs? The Johnsons breeders have made great strides in producing good hips (tight, well formed deep sockets) and many are good clean breathers. Especially those that don't go back to Ch West High Hopes (EB).

Jon, started a thread on the N X board about going back to the root and met with a bunch of hate and nay sayers...why?
Please someone tell what is all the stigma surrounding the Johnson dog?

Here are some Hybred dogs

KIWS Icon
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=592937

Mamma Jamma
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=592937

KIWS Blanco (this is the dog I'm taken Katara to on her next heat fingers crossed)
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=592937

CH Chestnut's Little Daya at Churchills
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1614501

ABNA GR. CH. Chestnut's Little Haloke
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=1614501

Axle
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/american_bulldog/dog.html?id=799993


If we would go back to one ring and one standard most abs would look like Johnson/Hybrid dogs and not like either of the extremes.
Least that my opinion away! flower
AMEN !!!!! sister...
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:28 pm

you and susan have something that is priceless!!!! and believe me it will turn heads,lol i want in.lol
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:37 pm

Hahahaha...thanks Jon!! But are ya sure ya want that? Because it comes with a price, many times your on the outside looking in. Because you won't go along to get along or turn a profit!
Man look what Susan has had go through for being honest, upfront and telling it like it is.
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:45 pm

JSAN_911 wrote:man lynda do i love your feed back, everyforum should have their own taskmaster.lol. but i agree 100%

lol! Other boards do there "call know it alls!"
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:49 pm

Taskmaster wrote:Hahahaha...thanks Jon!! But are ya sure ya want that? Because it comes with a price, many times your on the outside looking in. Because you won't go along to get along or turn a profit!
Man look what Susan has had go through for being honest, upfront and telling it like it is.
you guys have 2 great dogs, and thats the real deal bulldogs
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:55 pm

believe me when i get my hands on something priceless and if i breed it it would be to keep the offspring not for $$$$$, i must say god has blessed me financially
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:15 pm

JSAN_911 wrote:believe me when i get my hands on something priceless and if i breed it it would be to keep the offspring not for $$$$$, i must say god has blessed me financially

Thats awesome! You are right it should never be about the money!
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:23 pm

JSAN_911 wrote:
Taskmaster wrote:Hahahaha...thanks Jon!! But are ya sure ya want that? Because it comes with a price, many times your on the outside looking in. Because you won't go along to get along or turn a profit!
Man look what Susan has had go through for being honest, upfront and telling it like it is.
you guys have 2 great dogs, and thats the real deal bulldogs

True on paper I have some of the best most respected (working wise, hips and temperament) blood out there...However conformationally there is room for improvement.

As you said Susan also has a couple of nice dogs to start over with as well. Next year should prove very promising for both of us, as we have a few things in the making. Stay tuned as it's going to be good. DANCE
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:25 pm

JSAN_911 wrote:you and susan have something that is priceless!!!! and believe me it will turn heads,lol i want in.lol
Jon you know you can get in where ever you'll fit...watcha want?
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:30 pm

COOL
Taskmaster wrote:
JSAN_911 wrote:you and susan have something that is priceless!!!! and believe me it will turn heads,lol i want in.lol
Jon you know you can get in where ever you'll fit...watcha want?
i want to see that hybrid breeding go thru so i can get a boy lol
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:32 pm

whats your boys specs? height & weight?
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:45 am

JSAN_911 wrote:whats your boys specs? height & weight?

he's small (sorry but he is) but it's because he's so tightly inbred look at his pedigree it's has very few forks in it LOL. He's 21.5 inches tall and weights 75lbs. He was a bit heavier when I got him because the previous owner is a big weight puller on the west coast so was regularly getting worked out...Clyde has pulled 4500lbs. Like said Clyde is short, however, has father was 23-24 inches tall and weight about 100lbs, same with his paternal grandfather and his mother is a big dog going like 80-85lbs 22-23 inches. So by taking to unrelated dog the size should be there. He size is the only thing I don't care for about him. But for me the OFA good hips, excellent temperament, being NCL clear, a clean breather, having nice tight cat feet, beautiful head and the nice tight muscular body he has are more important to me.
But everyone isn't able to get passed something like that I can.
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:46 am

Taskmaster wrote:
JSAN_911 wrote:whats your boys specs? height & weight?

he's small (sorry but he is) but it's because he's so tightly inbred look at his pedigree it's has very few forks in it LOL. He's 21.5 inches tall and weights 75lbs. He was a bit heavier when I got him because the previous owner is a big weight puller on the west coast so was regularly getting worked out...Clyde has pulled 4500lbs. Like said Clyde is short, however, his father was 23-24 inches tall and weight about 100lbs, same with his paternal grandfather and his mother is a big dog going like 80-85lbs 22-23 inches. So by taking to unrelated dog the size should be there. He size is the only thing I don't care for about him. But for me the OFA good hips, excellent temperament, being NCL clear, a clean breather, having nice tight cat feet, beautiful head and the nice tight muscular body he has are more important to me.
But everyone isn't able to get passed something like that I can.
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by JSAN_911 on Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:00 am

10-4
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by GIL on Mon Aug 13, 2012 1:51 pm

I show my dogs in the Bully class, but really they are hybreds. If you look at Mojo or Betty, IMO they have a standard type body (lean and muscular) and a bully head on them... This is what I like and feel can make a good working bully dog. IMO it is the best mass / weight ratio, and can produce a clean breathing and athletic type of dog.






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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by Taskmaster on Mon Aug 13, 2012 11:44 pm

GIL wrote:I show my dogs in the Bully class, but really they are hybreds. If you look at Mojo or Betty, IMO they have a standard type body (lean and muscular) and a bully head on them... This is what I like and feel can make a good working bully dog. IMO it is the best mass / weight ratio, and can produce a clean breathing and athletic type of dog.






I agreed Gil so why aren't people used the Johnsons in their programs? What is the aversion to the Johnsons? Overall the Johnson breeders having proven they can produced tight hipped dogs with good hip socket formation. Along with decent temperaments, heat tolerance, clean breathers (non West High Hopes blood) and size...so what gives?
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Re: the modern ab is so FU@#$ up

Post by bkh on Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:04 am

Hey i see nothing wrong with him. If he can perform and can do his task thats all that maters, and he is far from average, above status so he speaks volume.
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