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Is it the breeder or owner?

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Is it the breeder or owner?  Empty Is it the breeder or owner?

Post by bkh Thu Jun 28, 2012 10:47 am

There is a thread going right now and this was brought up, seems to be causing a little confusion.

Here is the question...

Is it ALWAYS the owners fault for an unsound dog? Or does breeding unsound/stable dogs ALSO play its part?

Can you breed 2 human aggressive dogs and blame the owner that bought a pup from that litter for it biting their child or a neighbor?

Lets hear what you think AND WHY!
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Post by GIL Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:10 pm

genetics has more to do with the temperment then enviroment... look on youtube for a video called the Grey Fox Experiment...

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Post by GIL Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:11 pm

Sorry the Silver Fox Experiment... and here is the link...

https://youtu.be/YbcwDXhugjw

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Post by bkh Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:14 pm

GIL wrote:genetics has more to do with the temperment then enviroment... look on youtube for a video called the Grey Fox Experiment...
temperment imo can be control, i have worked with dogs that are label 730 for the enviroment, it can somewhat be curved.for instance i have a male aggresive dog or atleat he use to be that now his attitude is mild, but a little different with strager dogs, but yes it can be worked on.
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Post by GIL Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:54 pm

ya but that is trained into him... if push comes to shove he will go with his instincts, and that is genetic IMO...

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Post by Taskmaster Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:47 am

bkh wrote:There is a thread going right now and this was brought up, seems to be causing a little confusion.

Here is the question...

Is it ALWAYS the owners fault for an unsound dog? Or does breeding unsound/stable dogs ALSO play its part?

Can you breed 2 human aggressive dogs and blame the owner that bought a pup from that litter for it biting their child or a neighbor?

Lets hear what you think AND WHY!

Of course not! If the owner can prove that the parent/s unstable then the fault lies with the breeder imo. However I don't view aggression(human/animal) as being unstable or nervy with regard to temperament (depending on the breed). Unless it's fear aggression then it may or may not be the owners fault, as it could have been the result of bad bitework training.

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Post by Taskmaster Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:27 am

bkh wrote:
GIL wrote:genetics has more to do with the temperment then enviroment... look on youtube for a video called the Grey Fox Experiment...
temperment imo can be control, i have worked with dogs that are label 730 for the enviroment, it can somewhat be curved.for instance i have a male aggresive dog or atleat he use to be that now his attitude is mild, but a little different with strager dogs, but yes it can be worked on.

First I'm not familiar with the scoring or term "label 730" please explain.

I'm not one who believes temperament can be reliably modified. Simply because in times of stress or uncertainty the dog will default to how they are genetically hard wired to be, overriding any prior training.

I don't think being dog/animal aggressive is necessarily a temperament issue. A lot is dependent on the breed of dog exhibiting the behavior and if the behavior was man made or inherited. Especially when certain breed standards calls for the breed to have a belligerant/aggressive attitude towards others.
Sure training can inhibit the expression of a behavior, but it will never make a genetically wired dog for said behavior sufficiently reliable in a public or high stressful situation.
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Post by JSAN_911 Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:16 am

Taskmaster wrote:
bkh wrote:
GIL wrote:genetics has more to do with the temperment then enviroment... look on youtube for a video called the Grey Fox Experiment...
temperment imo can be control, i have worked with dogs that are label 730 for the enviroment, it can somewhat be curved.for instance i have a male aggresive dog or atleat he use to be that now his attitude is mild, but a little different with strager dogs, but yes it can be worked on.

First I'm not familiar with the scoring or term "label 730" please explain.

I'm not one who believes temperament can be reliably modified. Simply because in times of stress or uncertainty the dog will default to how they are genetically hard wired to be, overriding any prior training.

I don't think being dog/animal aggressive is necessarily a temperament issue. A lot is dependent on the breed of dog exhibiting the behavior and if the behavior was man made or inherited. Especially when certain breed standards calls for the breed to have a belligerant/aggressive attitude towards others.
Sure training can inhibit the expression of a behavior, but it will never make a genetically wired dog for said behavior sufficiently reliable in a public or high stressful situation.
lol. 730 is term for crazy
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Post by maddog Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:01 am

lol 730, i remember that from Big L's Ebonics song
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Post by GIL Fri Jun 29, 2012 11:20 am

oh ya... there is a huge difference between aggessive and unstable... my dogs are animal aggressive and the bigger the bader... Mojo see's a horse and he goes crazy... heck I heard last year that Mojo's grandsire was put down because he took down a prized stallion, I believe he was 9 or 10 years old... so that to me is genetic... now I didn't agree with him putting him down for something he encouraged him to do, they hog hunted and Forest was a catching machine... But he was fine around people and any other dog in the yard. And that is pretty much what my dogs are like... well except for Betty, maybe because she is still so young, the only time she is dominant is when her dad Mojo or brother Vader are around, then she acts like a bad a$$, but if not I think she could go to a dog park...lol... heck one of her buddies is a bunny...lol... So you can have an aggressive yet stable dog, IMO.

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